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Tuesday, October 5, 2010

Balls Deep to Epic Fail: Swirl Hate


Normally I'm a rather sunnyside-up kinda guy. I give second, third, even fourth and fifth chances regularly. Most people would describe me as "too nice" and even more would say I'm just a genuine and positive individual.

But despite this preamble intended to deflect the inevitable ad hominem, and accusations of over-compensation, I feel compelled to say something decidedly not-nice.

FUCK haters.

No, seriously, fuck 'em. Right in the ass using a large spiky steel dildo greased with Castor oil and then set on fire. I love the smell of charred ass burning when that ass makes itself into an asshole towards my girlfriend.

Over-protective boyfriend much? Of course. My mother raised me right.

Now, you might be confused. You might be wondering, "Zek, why the hostility?"

Well, allow me to link the offending post which attempts to utilize my girlfriend (among others, including myself, indirectly) in a condescendingly offensive way to make a blanket statement about something which has nothing to do with the author, but does manage to be sexist, racist, and ignorant. That is, the idea that Black women who swirl are settling for Plan B and hating on Black men because of it.

I know, crazy right? But don't take my word for it. Read the insanity yourself.

Blogjunk ----> [The Obsidian Files]

(Big shout-out to Chic Noir for giving the heads-up at Jasmin Llena de Gracia and linking this. Without it, I might have never known someone was hating so strongly on me and my lady.)

Honestly, the first thing I noticed was the quote under the blog's title heading. It's a [mis]quote of Sherlock Holmes, and later Spock from Star Trek. The [mis]quote reads, "Once you have eliminated the probable, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." This, to me, signifies exactly what I eventually found on the blog -- that is, things that just don't make sense.

(The actual quote goes, "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Being a quote collector myself, I get so annoyed as misquotes. It shows a distinct lack of intelligence that people should have learned from watching Bambi. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Or, in this case, if you can't say something smart, then shut the fuck up, because saying it wrong just makes you look like a dumbass.)

After reading through the post, I couldn't help but notice a whining tone to it. The author constantly complained of being hated on by Black women, yet offered no proof to back up this statement other than by linking posts from blogs that aren't even talking about him! (They were talking about Black women.)

Then, when he decided that he needed some pseudo-objective research to back-up his random generalizations, (making the first mistake of wannabe scholars, which is that no research is objective -- something the author should know, since being an educated Black man I would assume he's familiar with scientific racism, and the attempts to justify it) he linked two articles, yet completely missed the point of them.

[One was by Steve Sailer] from 1997! He's basing his own twisted ideas about relationships on an op-ed piece using statistics from almost 20 years ago! I mean, those numbers aren't just old -- they're ancient like an Okinawan super-centenarian! That article is so old I'm surprised he could even find it without having an obvious axe-to-grind agenda.

[The second was a Psychology Today puff-piece] talking about newlyweds and online-dating websites (such as OKCupid or Yahoo! Personals). Unfortunately, again our author missed the point by assuming that because Black women are chosen by White men less than Latinas or Asian women, that any Black woman who is swirling is not only taking a Plan B for herself, she is a Plan B!


Can you see the illogic operating here?

Somehow he missed the hegemonic standards of beauty in our society as well as how they work in interracial relationships. Hell, he even missed the poor research cited in the piece as much as the fact that it had nothing to do with his point about Black women who swirl as being angry Plan B people.

Let me post a few other insulting -- but funny -- statements:

OBS: "the reason for these Sistas’ irateness is because ... they weren’t able to attract the Men of their choice – Black Men – two, they had to more or less settle for guys they could get, which were White guys".

ZJE: So then my girlfriend (who doesn't even know you) is not-so-secretly mad that she can't be with you and is stuck with me? Then why do I hear so many Black women say, "once you go White, you know you're getting licked right." Hmm...

OBS: "This is documented – for every Sista who “swirls”, there are easily 3 to 5 times as many Brothas who can play that same game."

ZJE: I think that was the point of Jasmin's post... That Black women should do what Black men do: date outside the race as well as inside the race. Shouldn't you be taking that as a compliment? Or are you too busy insulting Black men who love their non-Black significant others by calling it a "game".

OBS: "For many Black Men, getting with a White gal is a step UP; for many Black Women, getting with a White guy is a step DOWN."

ZJE: Then why is it that so many Black women have pursued me in the past? Why is it that after my girlfriend and I changed our Facebook status did all sorts of Black women -- from around the block or not -- come out to try (and fail) getting my number? Is it possibly because they're so desperate to take a step down? Or is it because, just like with everyone else, a desireable man is the same to a woman, no matter what race he is.

But to add idiotic insults to injury, he tried to somehow make a case for Black women who look like my girlfriend as not being hot, which is why only White guys will date them. (Because, as we all know, White guys have no taste in women, particularly Black women... I'd like him to say that to Ben Foster or Vlad Doronin or Keith Britton. And let's be honest, White Privilege has often operated in allowing White men to take whatever they want, including women. So even history proves you wrong. Again.)

As for how hot my girlfriend is, well, that should speak for itself. I mean, let me post a photo to give you an idea:

[Sorry darling, but I couldn't help myself!]

So, yeah... Obviously she wasn't hit by any branches of the Ugly Tree. And, in fact, her dating life proves this. She's never had trouble finding guys to date, invalidating the author's argument. Again. It's that simple! Just one piece of personal experience and his ignorant stack of cards comes crashing down like Sampson pulling out the pillars.

What he calls beautiful is evidence of his personal bias, because the facts disagree with him. Apparently White guys pursuing Black women is a threat to his dating chances? Sorry dude, but you need to step-up your game if you're set on getting a Black woman -- or date outside your race, like everybody does -- because if you want a woman like mine you need to *ahem* how you say? "Come correct."

His comments about murky undercurrents of anger in the people's posts he used to make a point were so ambiguous I think maybe he wanted Black women to hate him... It certainly came off that way in the comments when he proceeded to taunt, well, everyone that disagreed with him -- while offering no evidence in return for their arguments other than reasserting what he'd already said in the body of the post.

Honestly dude, if no swirl-couples are hating on you (based on your evidence) and yet you keep yelling that Black women who swirl are hating on Black men then it kinda makes you look like a punk-bitch who can't get a woman, much less keep a woman.

Let me set the record straight. I know lots of swirl-couples, online and IRL. None of them are Plan B to their significant others, and none of them are hating on Black men.

As for me, I know I'm no Plan B because my girlfriend -- being the hottie that she is -- has, unlike me, options. She could date anyone she wanted, but is shacking-up with me A WHITE GUY because I genuinely make her happy. Being White or Black is irrelevant to our relationship, and it isn't a statement about you, or Black men at all. Our relationship has nothing to do with you.

And saying that she's hating on you because she's "gotta" be with me just makes you look jealous too.

Let me end this slam-dunk in your face with the best evidence I have.


Stop hating. Start celebrating.

Cheers

56 footnotes:

Natasha W said...

Good post! And I'm glad you defended your girlfriend. Not that I was expecting anything less.

I agree that Jasmin is not resentful or hateful towards black men. And I do think he was fishing around for anything that could be used to present a case for that, because he seems to believe that many black women who date interracially dislike black men. So he was just confirming his own bias. I've had people do that to me too, like "A-ha, so you DO hate black men." It seems you're not "allowed" to say anything about black men if you're a black woman who swirl, because people will always take it the wrong way.

I also think he is generalizing his tastes a bit too much... well, I think I disagree with pretty much everything in that post. From the use of a racist as an "objective source" to the "step up, step down" idea. I don't see how a white guy is a step down at all; a strong case could be made for the opposite. (Now, anyone reading this -- don't try to use that as proof that I'm "dissing" black men, because I'm not, kay?)

Zek J Evets said...

thanks! =)

i've been reading the remaining comments on that post, and honestly it's surprising how far some of them can stick their heads up their own tuckus and STILL say it smells like daisies.

the worldviews of some people will never be compatible with mine, and talking only exacerbates the divide. sometimes, it's better to make your point and go about your business. (which is what i did, but also felt a blogpost would better put it into perspective for me and anyone who read my comment on the post.)

the strangest thing is that by and large black men haven't had any negative things to say about myself or jasmin, and seem either indifferent to our relationship or like to jibe me a little in good fun. (there have been some "haters" who stare strangely when we walk around, but i consider them exceptions in the context of all the black men i've interacted with about my relationship.)

hopefully the intellectual masturbation OBS engages in is just a phase of insecurity, but if not, then so it goes. not everyone grows up when they grow up =/

Y said...

Sorry I just typed this long ass comment over at Jasmin's when it's probably more appropriate here. It seems we just can't win for losing. A whe back he used my OKCupid post as an example of why black women can't realistically get with white men. Yet when we have a black woman who through her actions and words displays happiness with her white boyfriend she is labeled an "ugly duckling" that failed to attract black men.

Crazy.

Zek J Evets said...

@y: no worries! i'm just glad for the comments. it's gotten so quiet around here, haha.

the topic they're talking about now is really funny to me. since when do white men not like thick women? as i recall all races of men lust for kim kardashian, salma hayek, and ki toy... sometimes i think obs might have just a SMALL amount of ignorance when dealing with white guys.

i don't like how he uses people's personal information to make a point. apparently it's a frequent problem for him, which people tell him off about, and he just brushes them off as being too sensitive or that it's within his rights. i think "stalker" might actually be an appropriate label for him ; )

Y said...

He frequents Roissy's blog. Which is infamous for have white racist trolls everywhere. He used to waste his energy arguing with them. Maybe it jaded him, who knows.

Apparently if white men dont like women pushing the limit on the BMI scale then that proves they dont like thick women.

WRT to being a "stalker" I wouldst say that. "Bene" is hyping up the situation a bit. He mentioned her once or twice now she thinks he obsessed.

But he does tend to take things and run with it. Even RR came to Jasmin's defense, and we all know how much they love each other ;)...If he read Jasmin's blog regularly he would know that she doesnt talk about black men much at all. He just happened to see a post that he didnt like and ran a pseudo-psychoanalysis

Y said...

Also, anyone that follows him will note that his argument switches depending on the audience. When he is dealing with white racists at Roissy's or Chuck's he will talk about how most black men date and marry black women and dont partake in favoring white/non-black women...How black men prefer black women. Yet in the post about Jasmin he makes it a point to say for many black men white women are a step up...

SO which is it?

Jessica Isabel said...

Dude, hell yes! Reading that crap just made me so friggin mad and I'm glad you stepped out. As a woman of color dating a white man, I'm glad there are other men like him roaming around and doing great anti-racist things in the world.

Two big big thumbs up.

Natasha W said...

Zek,

"the worldviews of some people will never be compatible with mine, and talking only exacerbates the divide."

That's one thing I've learned in the past few months.

I usually try to find something in common, something a person and I can agree on and discuss amicably. But it seems that some people and I just think so drastically different that even if we have basically the same ideas on something, we still end up disagreeing. And others, we will simply never come to the same conclusion on any issue, so it's a complete waste of time to "discuss".

"the strangest thing is that by and large black men haven't had any negative things to say about myself or jasmin, and seem either indifferent to our relationship or like to jibe me a little in good fun. (there have been some "haters" who stare strangely when we walk around, but i consider them exceptions in the context of all the black men i've interacted with about my relationship.)"

In my experience, most people are live and let live when it comes to interracial relationships or at least don't put in any concerted effort to trash them. A lot of people stare, but that's mainly because they're curious. But those who do have a problem with it for some reason... well, they really have a problem with it. But I doubt they would say anything to you: I've always gotten the comments or hostile looks, not so much my SO.

As for this case, I think there are some real issues that don't have much to do with your relationship. People are just taking out the resentment and fear they have on a couple of people, but it's really their own issues they need to work on. It's clear that they feel spurned by the world at large in some way(s), and I mean that respectfully.

Witchsistah said...

I love how the first thing ANYONE does when disparaging Black women is to call us ANGRY. I'm getting bored that they can't think of ANYTHING more original. No matter WHAT we do, we're always ANGRY about it or something in the world.

Yes, Jasmin writes more about what BW do. She doesn't go on and on about BM. I think THAT is what pissed dude off so much. He was being ignored.

As for the Plan B thang, I know my husband wasn't a Plan B because I was never waiting for my Black Prince to show up in the first place. And I'm OLD! I know more and more BW who are doing the SAME. And more and more BW are coming out online saying just that. I think THAT is pissing off dudes like Obsidian more than more BW IR dating, period.

Zek J Evets said...

@y: never been to roissy's, but i guess if its got white racist trolls i'll take a pass ; )

i could see getting jaded arguing with them would be a factor in his current blog-topics and attitude. it'd be sad, but then again so it goes.

i think the most annoying part of his writing is how he taunts people to "get off" and flaunt his own pseudo-intelligence, yet arrogantly not acknowledging that other people have valid opinions too.

@jessica: haha, thanks! i do what i can =)

@natasha: that's interesting that your SO hasn't gotten many looks. i always get stares (some approving, some curious, and some disapproving) and my girlfriend NEVER notices! haha, at least not until i tell her. but then again, she's not the people-watcher that i am ; )

i co-sign on your assessment (and witchsistah's) that it isn't about us personally(though he uses as an example) so much as his own problems. he's got more issues than a magazine it seems.

@witchsistah: haha! i never even thought of that, but you're right: most criticisms of black women i see online seem to highlight their "anger". as for me, i've never noticed black women being angry anymore than anyone else (and sometimes far less than others). i guess it's become a stereotype that just feeds off itself, like when people say jews are greedy and any evidence is evidence for the stereotype's proof. all i can say to that is: oy vey.

Chic Noir said...

Big shout-out to Chic Noir for giving the heads-up at Jasmin Llena de Gracia and linking this

your welcome my e-friend. may the peace be with you.

Chic Noir said...

@y- glad you know i wasn't the only one seeing such.

Jasmin said...

Well, the reason I fail to notice is because we both live in cities, and I was raised to avoid looking people in the eye on the street. (That was a lifesaver once street harrassment kicked in, and even then only marginally so.) So I tend to look past people's faces when walking down the street, because I usually don't want to make eye contact (especially with strange men).

Witchsistah,

You know we're just angry heifers, trying to bring Black men down. :-)

Natasha W said...

Witchsistah,

"As for the Plan B thang, I know my husband wasn't a Plan B because I was never waiting for my Black Prince to show up in the first place"

Co-sign.

These people talking about "Plan B" are dead wrong. In my experience, "Plan B-ers" are a very small segment of black women who date interracially. The black women I know who are in serious relationships with or married to white men would've been so whether 50 "good black men" existed or 500 billion. Because it wasn't about the "race" of the man, but the man himself. Moreover, the few Plan B-ers tend to forget all about even having a Plan A, after a short while. Look around for yourself, and see if you don't notice the same.

---------

Zek,

Who do you get the looks from?

My SO hasn't gotten as many looks (from what he and I can tell), but he hasn't gotten comments, mainly from black men.

Zek J Evets said...

@jasmin: this is true. i guess i'm just more crazy, since i look at people's faces when i walk around ; )

@natasha: i tend to get the most looks (the most that i catch anyways) from older black men, and younger white women + black women. just from the looks too i can tell there are VERY different reasons for these looks. the older black men seem to look suspicious of me. the younger white women look confused. and the younger black women look... well, interested, i think, haha.

(you should hear some of the stories of i've told jasmin about women trying to hit on me. not to be stereotyping, but i think because girls don't have have to, they really suck at hitting on guys that aren't trying to pick them up. thank goodness i get to avoid that mess by dropping the R-word.)

Natasha W said...

Oh yeah, I forgot to add... you know the author of the post this post addresses? "theobsidianfiles"?

I know him in real life.

Well, actually, he is an acquaintance of my brother's girlfriend. They live in the same city and he works around her alma mater sometimes.

Long story ahead...

I remember reading where one of the commenters called him by another name and I thought "Why are they calling him that?" So this morning, riding to work, I was just thinking and my mind drifted. I thought about this situation and how the author had some astrology posts up on his blog, how he has this bulldog style of communicating, and how he seems to like the color black and derivatives of it. Then it was like one of those moments that Raven gets in That's So Raven; my eyes got wide and my mouth turned into an "O". Except I wasn't seeing into the future. I just realized that I've had more than one run-in with him.

I was visiting my brother's girlfriend once and we saw him. They said a few words, but later she mentioned how she thought he was weird because he studies astrology. He had a weird name as well; not sure if it was real or not... but it was like the one that the commenter had used on that blog. So when I remembered these details, I put all the pieces together and started searching -- I like to get to the bottom of things. I looked through my brother's girlfriend's facebook friends. Through a lot of twisting and turning I found the guy's myspace page (I vaguely remembered his face), which had a link to another blog of his. Sure enough, when I looked through the comments, I saw people addressing him as "theobsidianfiles" or just "obsidian".

Then, I was thinking further and I remembered this guy used to be on a forum I moderate; I remembered him through the pictures he used and the name -- they were same one he used on the forum. We banned him for misogynistic writings, writing inflammatory comments, and stalking other female members. It was a big deal on my forum because he did start some good discussions, so we didn't want to ban him right away.

As I'm realizing all this I'm thinking "Oh. my. goodness"... I had to take a few minutes to digest it all.

So a couple things about him: he is nearly old enough to be Jasmin's father and he is not all that great-looking himself. (That's all I'll say about him in an open venue, but there is more.) He is genuinely a miserable character, says all who know him, and now we see right before our eyes that misery INDEED loves company.

Natasha W said...

That should be "HAS gotten comments" in my comment at 4:02 PM.

Jasmin,

I'm from a big city too and I look straightforward when walking. But can't you see people from the corner of your eye? I can always see them. Or it's a situation where we're sitting or standing in one place: on the train, in a store, in a restaurant. So I can't avoid people looking at me.

-----

Zek,

That sounds about right from the looks I've seen my SO get.

younger black male = contempt, disgust, and/or curiosity

older black male = suspicion and/or contempt

younger white female = shock, curiosity, and/or resentment

younger black female = curiosity OR disgust

Generally.

"not to be stereotyping, but i think because girls don't have have to, they really suck at hitting on guys that aren't trying to pick them up."

WHAT?!?

I got game. Ask my SO -- I picked him up too. :P

But seriously, I know how to flirt with guys. I am very good at it. (This is when I initiate flirting with the guy, rather than if he initiates with me, which is the more common scenario) It's just comes naturally, especially if the guy is hot. I even played this game recently, to see how many numbers/forms of contact I could get. I did tremendously well -- I got almost all; a few had girlfriends. My SO said "They were probably not even listening to what you were saying. They just see a hot chick hitting on them so why wouldn't they be interested?" I think he needs to stop hating on my game because it's better than his...

Witchsistah said...

So dude is from the land of misfit toys, can't get a woman and is mad about it AND trying to increase his chances of landing one by trying to batter BW's self-esteem into dust while trying to big up BM (of which he is one) with the whole "BM dating a WW is a step up (as if he could actually GET a WW), while BW dating a WM is a step DOWN" bull?*

*smh*

Sounds like my equally misfit ex who hated WW and AW since they wouldn't have ish to do with him. I'm sure BW are now on his hate list too.

*I'mma need someone to explain that to me since, in the American social hierarchy, WM are at the tippy-top and most of WW's power comes from being associated with WM.

Witchsistah said...

Natasha,

I know how to flirt with guys. I am very good at it.

Reason #2939 why I'm currently fucking the last man I'm ever gonna. I can't flirt worth a damn. I'm too self-conscious and feel stupid. My past attempts at it were, well, lets just say dismal with the consecutive results and leave it at that.

Plus I'm simply not pretty enough. You got to be attractive to men for that to work.

Jasmin said...

Natasha,

I've perfected a way of looking through people, so unless they do something super-obvious I probably won't notice.

Ooh, can I try that game? ;-)

Mira said...

Zek,

What a great post!

I'll get back to this later, when I take a better look at the obsidian files website.

He managed to misspell your girlfriends' name, that's the first thing I noticed. Sure, it can happen, I guess, but if you want to be taken seriously, you must pay attention.

PS-As for the main topic, not sure what to say. I don't know any black men so I honestly don't know what any of them think (even on individual basis). I am completely unfamiliar with the whole interracial dating in America (especially when it comes to black men/white women). But the vibe I'm getting sure reeks of male privilege and hypocrisy, and frankly, you must be really egoistic if you, as a black man*, think that a post on black women is about you (or that is SHOULD be about you).

*- I'm talking about this because it is the case here, but is also true for any other combination (a white woman thinking that a post on white men/black women/etc. is about them), and of course, it's not just about race issues.

I understand race tensions are huge in the US (and it's not like I don't get tensions between groups- believe me, I do.) But I also know there is a difference between individual level and a collective level, and you should never mix the two.

Why it's so difficult for some people to get is beyond me.

Zek J Evets said...

@all: sorry for publishing your responses so slowly! my computer's power-cord fried out and i've been late in getting a replacement.

@natasha: that's so crazy how you actually know him! small world much? haha, oy vey. i figured he'd be an older dude, just from the reactionary style of his writing, and creepness he gives off by going after all these young(er) black women's relationship choices. as my girlfriend tells me, "what? does he want to date me? creepster!"

i've taken the liberty of coming up with a few puns for his name:

the obsessive files
the obfuscated files
the obnnoying files
the obnoxious files
the obscene files

your boyfriend gets the EXACT SAME reactions that i do! (which stands to reason, since we've got similar situations, but it's still interesting as hell.)

and i will still bet that your boyfriend will have better "traditional game" than you! haha, jasmin and i got into this last night. (she thinks she has better game than i do too.) we brought up the topics of different game-types, and that the frontal-assault type -- whereby a guy's gotta approach a girl in a random setting -- is difficult, and since only guys usually do it of course they'd be better at it. but, that because girls are typically the ones to play seductress, that they're better at.. for lack of a better word "manipulating" attraction.

@witchsistah: you've already got 2938 reasons for being with your current SO? haha, not that you shouldn't, but i'm surprised because you COUNTED. (i thought only i did that!)

@mira: i'm extremely gratified that someone who -- for all intensive purposes -- is an objective outsider can see the idiocy at work in this guy's writing. i mean, certainly all of us here aren't that crazy as he is, but reassurances are always nice =)

and i'm glad you liked the post! i might have to start putting people on blast more often ; )

Witchsistah said...

Zek,

I haven't counted. Just bein' a smartass.

The Man did a frontal assault on me. He simply asked me point blank, "Would you go out with me?" And I was all shocked so I replied, "What...like...on a DATE?!" "Yeah." "Yeah." And it was on an poppin' from there.

Zek J Evets said...

@witchsistah: haha, i figured.

sounds like your first meeting had an alternative sense of romance working ; )

Jasmin said...

Witchsistah,

Plus I'm simply not pretty enough. You got to be attractive to men for that to work.

Lies, all lies! (Well, the first sentence in particular.)

Jasmin said...

Zek,

And how many did you count, hmm? ;-)

Natasha W said...

Witchsistah,

"*I'mma need someone to explain that to me since, in the American social hierarchy, WM are at the tippy-top and most of WW's power comes from being associated with WM."

You'd need to be aware of their "HBD" bullsh*t to get that. These people have too much time on their hands.

"Reason #2939 why I'm currently fucking the last man I'm ever gonna. I can't flirt worth a damn. I'm too self-conscious and feel stupid. My past attempts at it were, well, lets just say dismal with the consecutive results and leave it at that."

I get self-conscious sometimes too, especially if the guy doesn't immediately begin smiling when I start talking to him (they usually do). But, I don't know, I guess my love of learning about people and love of attractive men allows me to keep going.

"Plus I'm simply not pretty enough. You got to be attractive to men for that to work."

Lie. You're pretty; I've seen you. But I don't even think you have to be very conventionally attractive to do it (although I don't think you can be
"beat" either). Just dress nice, look neat, and smile and laugh at appropriate times.

[I hope I don't sound like a creeper by saying that... I'm not. Just like my men. ;)]

------

Jasmin,

"Ooh, can I try that game? ;-)"

Sure... it's really fun. Just don't have too much fun, or Zek might start getting annoyed with you like my SO did.

------

Zek,

"the obfuscated files
the obnoxious files"


Winners.

"and i will still bet that your boyfriend will have better "traditional game" than you!"

In his dreams.

I don't think he could approach a woman he hasn't observed for at least a little while. He wouldn't know what to say. He'd probably be all "Hey, what's up?" Lol. He tends to psyche himself out by over-analyzing it.

I'm good at frontal assault, actually. I think because the kind of guys I'm interested in (minus the black ones) aren't really the type to push up on women, I've had to compensate and "up" my game. But I'm sure being a girl helps. There is the advantage that few women approach men, and certainly not in the subtly obvious manner I do. I didn't even get to finish asking this (white) guy I met on the train. I started "Yeah, so, can I have--" He interrupted "Yes." I was like "Great." :D

Zek J Evets said...

@jasmin: uhhh... i counted to around 107,583 and then gave up =)

@natasha: i'll have to have this vetted by le boyfriend before i'll pony up some admittance to your game and skills... haha. i can honestly say i've never met a woman with good game that didn't involve copious amounts of boobage coupled with eye-fucking. however, i am prepared to be wrong!

Zek J Evets said...

P.S. present girlfriend excepted ; )

Jasmin said...

Natasha,

My problem is that I smile a lot (that's my default expression), so sometimes when I'm just being nice, guys will think I'm smiling a little bit extra, just for them. I think that's why I've had a lot of friends attempt to climb out of the friend zone.

Note: I mentioned this to a guy who's basically my second-in-command for a program I run, and he was all, "Yea, when I first met you I was like, whoa". This is the guy who talks about how he can potentially have "a new girlfriend every week"--since our program is about 90% female--while his real girlfriend (who doesn't go to our university) studies abroad, and who felt the need to mention how hot her former roommate is. Plus he gives me open-ended invites to go out half of the times I see him, which is twice a week. Insert eye roll.

Y said...

@ Natasha W

Thats crazy that you know Obsidian in real life. I have seen his pictures and know his real name...Small world indeed.

Do you still have a forum? If so, care to share the link?

Witchsistah said...

Jasmin,

So basically, dude said, "Hi, I'm a big-ass man-heau, and I'll treat you like a walking Kleenex for my dick just like I do all the other girls I've been with including the one I'm SUPPOSED to be committed to. Wanna go out?"

Natasha W said...

Zek,

"i'll have to have this vetted by le boyfriend before i'll pony up some admittance to your game and skills... haha. i can honestly say i've never met a woman with good game that didn't involve copious amounts of boobage coupled with eye-fucking. however, i am prepared to be wrong!"

Lol. He may need to come out and play some day, but he's usually busy.

Boobage and eye-f*cking? Nah, not my style. I'm just very friendly and subtly flirty. I tend to dress conservatively. None of my dresses or shirts show much cleavage.

---

Jasmin, ha, you're one of those people with a permanent smile on their face? Well, yeah, I don't about you. Smiling harder might just make you look crazy. :D

---

Y, yes, it is a very small world. I would never have thought in a million years that I had any idea who he was. Now that I know, everything makes sense.

My forum has moved to a new location since he was on it but I don't want to post it for fear of getting "unwanted" visitors...

Jasmin said...

Witchsistah,

"Not a chance in hell" was me putting it mildly.

Natasha,

My sisters always say, "Why do you always look so happy?" And it's not even that I'm just that pleasant, all the time (definitely not true)--my mouth smiles without me even noticing!

islandgirl said...

"So a couple things about him: he is nearly old enough to be Jasmin's father and he is not all that great-looking himself. (That's all I'll say about him in an open venue, but there is more.) He is genuinely a miserable character, says all who know him, and now we see right before our eyes that misery INDEED loves company."

Hmmm, that explains A LOT! People with that aggressive, bull dog approach are usually very miserable people. People like that are not worth your time.

Y said...

@ Natasha W

Ooo,I see, and totally understand.

Zek J Evets said...

@obsidian: sorry, but unless you have an actual comment to post on my blog, then i can't publish yours. just typing a link to your own blog is not a comment, nor is it at all constructive as a response. (as you might recall, i left a comment on your blog, but did not then go and link you to mine because 1. that's rude, 2. it's off-topic, and 3. i don't engage in blogowars.) if you DO have a comment to my post however, please submit it and i will publish & respond to it at my earliest convenience.

until then,

cheers

Chuck said...

I first want to state that this is the first time I've ever visited your blog. Obsidian alludes to some sort of collusion on our part.

Obsidian offers up lots of conjecture and half-baked theories (which I've been guilty of doing as Y and Natasha W. can attest to in my acid attack posts) so the only thing that can really conclusively disprove him is to come up with our own evidence that black women don't resort to white men as some sort of plan B.

Let me preface my comments by saying that I think claims that white men don't find black women are wildly overstated; plenty of guys at my blog make such claims but I have a relatively laissez-faire commenting policy. Personally, I find Serena Williams, Tocarra, Nicki Minaj etc to be very attractive.

Now, I tend to get hit on quite often by black women. And when I'm not being hit on, I observe a decent amount of eye-fucking. I can't say that I instigate these interactions because I have a girlfriend, and I've also bought in to the fallacy that black women don't want white men. But this is increasingly being proven wrong - not only by my own experiences but by anecdotal evidence from Hollywood and all of these swirl bloggers.

And while I do also observe and hear black women spout anti-BM rhetoric, it doesn't seem as if swirlers are necessarily the ones making the loudest noise. Obsidian doesn't entertain the notion that a lot of the BW who make that commotion still wind up dating BM.

What I find most hypocritical about Obsidian's post is that he does the very same thing that he so often rails against: he judges the merits of WM/BF relationships because he doesn't think they're made up of the right stuff. He acts as if they are shams or that either side is settling. My response is that every relationship involves settling to some degree. I'll be honest when I say that I think WM/BF relationships are founded on more sturdy ground than BM/WF relationships. Divorce statistics bear this out; WM/BF have divorce rates 4x lower than the analogue. But Obsidian views these relationships as shams or less-than or stemming from some sort of psychological affliction when I rather see them as the epitome of a relationship entered in to for all the right reasons.

Zek J Evets said...

@chuck: hey, welcome to my blog!

i'll admit, i did click the link obs left in lieu of a comment and skimmed through the post. i honestly had no idea who you were until he mentioned you. (no offense, i trust. i'll have to go read your post after this comment.) but the fact that someone else has the gumption to blog about the offensive and convoluted views expressed in obs' post is definitely uplifting. however, any sort of "collusion" or "secret partnership" is fucking silly -- and obviously wrong.

i'm not sure how obs misconstrued the swirl bloggers he cited as hating on black men, since in the posts they were talking about black women. again and again this was reiterated to no effect. in fact, quite the opposite was contained in (at least in my girlfriend's posts) a copying of black men's dating-strategies, almost therefore an homage. black women should date all kinds of people, just as black men are doing. the breakdown -- and greatest offense to me -- was when obs called it a "plan B". based on the testimonies of my girlfriend, and various other swirl bloggers this is obviously not the truth.

but even stranger was how obs tried to highlight how much he "supports" and "defends" a woman's right to be with whoever they choose, etc & so on. yet the intentions and consequences of his writings directly contradict that statement. you can't say you support someone's freedom to choose a relationship and then say they're taking a "plan B" option while simultaneously hating on you because of it. (for the hilariously ignorant reason that they somehow must want you over us [white guys].) it baffles my logic and rationality, but so it goes.

i appreciate your comments and support of me, my girlfriend, and other swirlers in the world. it's hard enough being in an inter-racial, inter-faith, long distance relationship -- dealing with the looks, the comments, and all that other racist/ignorant/xenophobic/prejudiced shit -- without being labeled a back-up plan too.

keep on keeping on man.

Obsidian said...

Hello Zek,
No harm, no foul wrt your not posting my last comment. I did that as a courtesy to you and your readers, giving you all a heads-up that I did indeed respond to what you and at least some of your readers have had to say about my recent article. I am quite content to air my views in my own space, as I am sure you have other pressing things to address, given the activity of the blog.

I note that Chuck has appeared, and both he and you are wrong on a number of points, points which I believe I have made clear back over at my blog on the most recent post on the matter under examination.

Oh, and the "collusion" thing was a joke. Lighten up. ;)

O.

Chuck said...

Zek, you said:

"but even stranger was how obs tried to highlight how much he "supports" and "defends" a woman's right to be with whoever they choose, etc & so on. yet the intentions and consequences of his writings directly contradict that statement. you can't say you support someone's freedom to choose a relationship and then say they're taking a "plan B" option while simultaneously hating on you because of it."

This is a very clear-headed point. I couldn't - and didn't - have said it better myself.

Natasha W said...

Chuck, there is no way to "conclusively disprove" that black women are resorting to Plan B. The only thing anyone has here is anecdotal evidence (and mine, as a lifelong "swirler", contradicts that notion). Even if we were to take a poll or do a study, there would be no way we could be sure that what these people were saying was the truth.

Like I said above, in my vast experience, "Plan B-ers" are a small group of the black women who date interracially. If a black woman really wants to date black men, there is little that can be said or done, no statistics or studies, that can change her mind otherwise. The "Plan B-ers" just get the most attention via news and blogs, for some reason, maybe because it's an interesting news story.

You bring up a good point though, in that most of the black women that I see who make negative comments about black men still date mostly/only black men.

Zek J Evets said...

@chuck: when it comes to good points, i'm like a set of steak-knives. always ready for cutting ; )

by the by, the posts on your blog about being a server are AWESOME -- horribly hilarious too -- and i'm now following.

@natasha: i think for me, just having a single person that contradicts the "plan B" theory means it's invalidated. i'm sure such women exist, but since the post wasn't about them in specific, but rather about my girlfriend, i felt like it was applicable. if it had been about a general minority, i might still have been offended, but i couldn't say it was because he was talking about me.

@OBS: cool beans. the heads up was nice, i suppose, but for my part -- which you noticed -- is that my blog activity is sporadic due to my schedule. just ain't got the time most of the time.

your thoughts as per mine & chuck's points will have to remain unresolved unfortunately. i'm kind of gonna move on, since further discussion would seem like... a waste of time.

however, thanks for posting a real comment! and good luck with your blog.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone post a link to Obsidian's old blog?

Zek J Evets said...

@anon: i have a link to the current blog. i'm not sure he had an old one. does he? anyone know?

Witchsistah said...

Zek,

If that is the same "Chuck" from Abagonds then let me warn you that he is a racist. He thinks Blacks are inferior to Whites, that Blacks are all brawn and no brain. That Blacks have not contributed anything to U.S. history.

He is only agreeing with you because he doesn't like that Obsidian put down White men. He could give a shit about Black women. In fact, he thinks we're inferior to White women. Nope, it's soley the insult to White men he's vexxed over.

If he's not the same Chuck then carry on as you wish (like you need my permission).

Witchsistah said...

It is the same Chuck. Well, what I said stands then.

Zek J Evets said...

@witchsistah: damn... that kind of sucks. really hard.

guess i'll have to vet people more closely.

Jasmin said...

Witchsistah,

I found that out earlier too, though I was puzzled at the contradictions, which is why I thought it was just a coincidence. Thanks for pointing that out.

Anonymous said...

There's no contradiction. Chuck has never been opposed to the right of people to date IR, nor has he spoken against it.

Calling him a "racist" isn't fair. Today's society happens to be "racist" against white men, as they are the only groups that is allowed to be disparaged at every turn. How many times do you hear the anti-white racial slur "redneck" used with no shame?

Chuck follows HBD (Human BioDiversity) which doesn't assert the "supremacy" of any race, but does note that their are legit racial differences that have been found by many scientists.

For example, HBDers will acknowledge that Jewish people and Asians have higher IQs than whites, and that black people are intrinsically more athletic. There is often a bit of guilt by association because racists will often take data from HBD research and twist it for their own needs. But that doesn't make the findings invalid, nor does it make blank slate liberal creationism any more valid.

Some prominent HBDers include geneticists Cochran and Harpending of "The 10,000 year Explosion". It's a good book, you should give it a shot.

Zek J Evets said...

@anon: it would be more preferable to address your comment in a different forum, where you could use a proper handle to identify yourself with, but i'll take a sec to address some of what you wrote...

society is indeed racist (without the quotes), and on that we can all agree, i think. i doubt anyone would say that racism against whites does not occur -- but the frequency is debatable, and, ultimately, unproveable. as a white jewish man, i've experience my fair share of discrimination and outright bigotry. and not just for being jewish! but i can still recognize the underlying power structures that insulate me from many things that affect different groups. (nobody calls me the n-word, or tosses my application off the stack for how my name sounds/looks.)

i am well aware of HBD, as well as cochran & harpending. they are both anthropologists at the university of utah. their work in HBD is mere scientific racism, because it links race with intelligence when we know intelligence is a complex thing to measure (being that there are different kinds, etc) and that there exist significant examples to contradict any general statement of one race possessing more intelligence than another. moreover, saying that "asians" are more intelligent is a woefully false statement. asians can mean quite a few groups/countries/regions/ethnic populations, for one, and for two it is a well-known stereotype to link "asians" with intelligence, and that we/you choose this theory to support our own world-views is less scientific than it is preference.

essentialism is what you're talking about. and essentialism is a dangerous line of reasoning, because it generalizes complex things without account for reality's variations. it is offensive to suggest that anyone one person is JUST this, or INTRINSICALLY that. that is not scientific, nor is it proveable.

but anyhoo, that is not the topic of this post. thanks for sharing though.

Zek J Evets said...

@nolongeranonymous: thanks for the comment, but like i said this post is hardly the forum for discussing HBD. however, i'll keep in mind what you said, and thanks for the compliments about my relationship.

cheers!

Witchsistah said...

Thank you, Zek,

That HBD bullshit is nothing more than the modern day version of assigning "racial" intelligence to the size of skulls and "racial" personality traits to bumps on the head. It's the same bs that justified slavery and the subjugation of various peoples around the world. It's the same bs that says Black women's butts make us more able to endure rough sex and make us sexually insatiable (i.e. perfectly fine to brutally rape with impunity). It's the same bs that claims that Black men's giant penises are also signs that they are sexually ravenous and will forcibly rut with anything (therefore we need to lynch as many of them as possible to control them and make sure they don't come after OUR women)!

All those assholes are about is prettying up their racism

Natasha W said...

Witchsistah, I said as much re: Chuck on his blog post response. He doesn't give two sh*ts about black women, he just has to defend them in order to protect his true interests: white men.

"Calling him a "racist" isn't fair."

...Maybe you should look up racist/racism in the dictionary. If Chuck isn't racist, the sky isn't blue.

Marty Woodcock said...

That was a great post. One for the books. However, why do you have so many white exclamation marks within white triangles on a black background? Every picture within your post has been replaced with the following: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_e4T0gAOoxuo/TKrH-t3-aBI/AAAAAAAADmI/ux8uuaEKWNk/s1600/23853_368877162425_743047425_3809037_6131612_n.jpg. It detracts greatly from your excellent post. After all - a picture does say a thousand words. I'd fix that if I were you.

Zek J Evets said...

Well, it's a kinda old post, and unfortunately all of my posts after a certain date lost the associated images, accidentally.

Since it affected so many posts, I just gave up on dealing with it for the moment.